Computer Hardware Forum

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:16:08 +0000, Bonj wrote:

> Right.. I've decided to go for the existing case and stick with the new
> (cheap) 500w psu, but replace the heatsink and cpu-fan that comes with the
> amd64 chip with a much more hardcore one, possibly even watercooled.

There's really no need to replace the stock A64 cooler. The HS itself is
very good (unlike coolers for the XP line). It works well with the stock
fan, but I replaced the little 70x15mm fan with a 70->80mm fan adapter and
installed an 80x25mm low speed fan just to make it quieter. Can't even
hear it now. If you want max cooling just throw an 80mm high speed fan on
it with a fan control.

> This'll keep it running like a mutha. I'll then add an exhaust fan, and
> monitor the cpu's temparature from within software and see if it's
> within an acceptable range.

You don't want to add an exhaust fan unless you first add 1 or 2 intake
fans. In reality, all you shoukld need to add would be 1 intake fan. The
PSU already has an exhaust fan where it should be, at the top of case.
Adding all exhaust fans will create stress, noise, and without an intake
fan is just not good. It could leave your PSU overheating as it will
fighting for air to pull through the PSU too. Not to mention a starved fan
makes more noise.

Just like PSU's, there's also cheap coolers that will work better than
expensive ones.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

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Wrong on your cheep ram opinions as well. Cheap Ram is the number 2 cause of
undiagnosable problems If it works for you that's good luck. You will not
find any of that junk in top brands for a reason.
Cheep ram comes out of low quality plants using thin cheap PCBs poor
soldering metals cheap made chips or seconds from good manufactures. I also
instituted a NO cheap ram policy at our shop and our return rate for PS and
Ram went down 4000% labour at the shop made money with higher turnover. The
number one ram maker counterfeit in Europe is hynix and 20% or more is fake
(the Inquire or  register last year).
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/..show/182427.cms
Cheap plants don't test chips just assemble and ship same as those piss poor
crappie PS and don't care if they get a bad rep because they will have a new
name next week.
An so you know the GOOD as well as POOR PS are made in those 50 cents an
hour plants so your overpriced labour theory is more bunk to defend poor
power supplies as quality with low labour.
You are a stubborn person like my brother never change your mind or give
ground even in the face of a mountain of proof, 100 people tell him one
thing but some how they are all wrong and he is right.

Good luck Wes,


"Wes Newell" <w.newell@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.01.05.09.22.29.89637@TAKEOUTverizon.net..
> On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:40:08 +0000, String wrote:
> 
>
> Not even close to what i said. I said the majority, somewhere between
> 90-95% of the hundreds of inexpensive PSU's I've used run 5 years or more.
> The one I put in the company server in about 1995 is still running. It
> cost about $20 then.
> 
>
> I don't know where you get your success rate figures from, but I know
> where mine come from, and the PSU works just as good as the expensive
> ones. Granted I don't run extensive test to see if they actually put out
> 100% of their ratings, but I don't care about that. At under $20 a pop
> they work, and work well enough for any system I've built. If they didn't,
> I wouldn't use them in my machine and certainly not in machines we sell
> and maintain at customers sites, since failures cost way more money in
> time than than the price of an expensive PSU.
> 
>
> There's many reasons reasons you may have had so many failures. And if it
> took one of the techs I supervise a half a day to replace a PSU, he'd be
> looking for another job fast. Most PSU's can be changed in a matter of
> mintues. Certainly less than 30, not counting travel time. The failure
> rates you found could just as easily be contributed to the wrong size PSU
> ion the first place. I've seen this problem many times. I'll be the first
> to admit that cheap PSU's  *may* be over rated. Simply buy one with that
> in mind and you should be fine. And don't worry, I'm not looking for a
> job.
>
> So I gather you don't like cheap ram either? That's all I use too.:-) A
> 60ns ram chip is a 60ns ram chip. Doesn't matter who's circuit board you
> stick it on as long as the ram is the same PN. I can see you waste a lot
> of money, so you would most definately not work for me, at least not for
> long. Want to know what I know about ram? I used to design, manufacture
> and sell ram upgrades. yep, I designed them, layed them out, had the
> boards manufactured, assembled, and distributed. So BS all the other
> people you want. I know better.
> 
> Nope, I don't work at all any more. Now don't get me wrong, there are some
> trashy PSU's out there. I bought 20 old AT PSU's for $2 each. They even
> looked trashy. And they had a 20% failure rate within a few months. I know
> the others were still going after a couple of years. Needless to say, no
> more were purchased. But the majoirty of cheap psu's ( just not that
> cheap) work fine.
> 
> Luck has nothing to do with it, but thanks.
>
> --
> Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
> http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

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Wes Newell <w.newell@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in
news:pan.2005.01.05.08.38.10.86317@TAKEOUTverizon.net:

> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 00:11:20 +0000, Mitch Crane wrote:
> 
>
> Heck if he paid $20 he got ripped off, Mine was only $12, $15
> shipped.:-)

True. $20 for a hunk of scrap metal some leaky capacitors and some wire is
definitely too much.

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>> Wes Newell: 
>
> I know because I made all the computer component purchases for these
> machines. And I give first hand testimony that it's true. Now you
> have 2 choices. Either prove I'm a liar or stick it in your XXX. And
> yes, that was a hostile statement. Can you tell the difference.

The burden of proof fell on you when you characterized your information
as fact. You cannot 'know' that the failure rates are equivalent unless
you have used an equivalent number of quality and generic power
supplies and kept enviromental and maintenance logs on all of them.
Your anger makes it obvious that you really have no way of supporting
your statements. So I will take option C and do nothing, because nothing
is required of me.

I also want to point out that 'cheap' is really the wrong word, cheap
is relative. There are inexpensive power supplies that are good
quality. The generic PS are the ones that you should beware of, that
are pumped out of factories from god knows where and the 'brand' may
only exist for a production run. --
Mac Cool

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a ps is a ps..

if you buy a pos ps , then you end up with power that may not be as reliable
but
in most circumstances will suffice -- unless you are a business or a
corporation,
it doesn't seem to pay to buy a 'name brand' ps.

of course wattage is a big factor  - always good to have 'more than' your
needs
max

i like the idea of the smart ps that adjusts the fan speed dependent on the
temperature .  these are standard now i beleive.

i have yet to get an amd .. i was thinking the amdxp because there is quite
a price dif to hop up to the amd64 ..

of course the ps should be at least a 450 watt for such a machine ?  )
normal hd, and cd rom peripherals .

"Mitch Crane" <a-one@a-two.a-three> wrote in message
news:Xns95D4C33A81DFA616F6E656174776F6174@63.223.5.95..
> "Bonj" <a@b.com> wrote in news:340n2hF448bamU1@individual.net:
> 
>
> I'm getting the distinct impression that you weren't looking for sound
> advice, but for someone to validate your own opinion. Good luck with your
> $200 water cooling kit and your $20 PSU.
>

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"eric" <ershe@earthlink.net> wrote in news:oqXCd.1396$%e1.370
@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:

> a ps is a ps..

And a cpu is a cpu and a car is a car and a duck is a duck and a
frankfurter might be a hot dog. They aren't all equal, however.

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You've got to remember that a lot of the people who are posting stating that
cheap power supplies have bust on them are probably the sort of people who
are overclocking their machines to a ridiculous degree. It's far too glib to
assume that because the speed it runs at out of the box isn't the maximum
speed it can possibly run at, that you should therefore increase its speed
in order to see better performance, as this often turns out to prevail only
in the short term. There's a difference between maximum speed and maximum
recommended speed - the latter keeps the operation of all components within
stated electronic limits, and thus renders it far less likely to break.

"String" <spamno@yehooo.ct> wrote in message
news:poUCd.32239$nN6.19123@edtnps84..
> Wrong on your cheep ram opinions as well. Cheap Ram is the number 2 cause
> of undiagnosable problems If it works for you that's good luck. You will
> not find any of that junk in top brands for a reason.
> Cheep ram comes out of low quality plants using thin cheap PCBs poor
> soldering metals cheap made chips or seconds from good manufactures. I
> also instituted a NO cheap ram policy at our shop and our return rate for
> PS and Ram went down 4000% labour at the shop made money with higher
> turnover. The number one ram maker counterfeit in Europe is hynix and 20%
> or more is fake (the Inquire or  register last year).
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/..show/182427.cms
> Cheap plants don't test chips just assemble and ship same as those piss
> poor crappie PS and don't care if they get a bad rep because they will
> have a new name next week.
> An so you know the GOOD as well as POOR PS are made in those 50 cents an
> hour plants so your overpriced labour theory is more bunk to defend poor
> power supplies as quality with low labour.
> You are a stubborn person like my brother never change your mind or give
> ground even in the face of a mountain of proof, 100 people tell him one
> thing but some how they are all wrong and he is right.
>
> Good luck Wes,
>
>
> "Wes Newell" <w.newell@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.01.05.09.22.29.89637@TAKEOUTverizon.net.. 
>
>

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> No, you infer, I imply, but I wasn't implying anything. I don't know if
> changing the power supply fixed his problem or not, I was relating an
> experience about temperature.

Yes, but that wasn't the subject, PSUs was.. the original subject was
supposed to be fans, but since you just mention temperature in general and
just imply that it's due to the power supply without any mention of fans,
but then renege that you said that when challenged, suggests that this
experience of yours is completely irrelevent..

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> There's really no need to replace the stock A64 cooler. The HS itself is
> very good (unlike coolers for the XP line). It works well with the stock
> fan, but I replaced the little 70x15mm fan with a 70->80mm fan adapter and
> installed an 80x25mm low speed fan just to make it quieter. Can't even
> hear it now. If you want max cooling just throw an 80mm high speed fan on
> it with a fan control.

No, I've discovered this since going to a few PC shops and finding out that
'other better quality ones' don't really exist in that way.. plus the
warranty is also 3 years so it makes sense to keep it intact.

> 
>
> You don't want to add an exhaust fan unless you first add 1 or 2 intake
> fans. In reality, all you shoukld need to add would be 1 intake fan.

I've got an intake fan I can harvest from my 32-bit machine that's already
got an extra fan (in line with the chip but on the opposite side of the case
and with a funky 'air tube' to help the air from the chip down the tube
straight out of the case) - so in my 64 machine I can have an intake fan at
the front and an exhaust fan at the back.

>The
> PSU already has an exhaust fan where it should be, at the top of case.

The PSU apparently has 'dual black fans'.

> Adding all exhaust fans will create stress, noise, and without an intake
> fan is just not good.

I'll only have one, near the bottom, I can see the logic to that.

Cheers

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> I'm getting the distinct impression that you weren't looking for sound
> advice, but for someone to validate your own opinion.

Er -.. yes, correct, thanks!

> Good luck with your
> $200 water cooling kit and your $20 PSU.
>

Well I haven't gone for any '$' cooling kit in the end, but I've heard more
sound advice telling me that there shouldn't be anything wrong with a cheap
power supply, than I have heard bad advice telling me to steer clear from
it.. but cheers anyway.

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