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Dell Dimension 8300 Memory upgrade troube
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| Martina Bender 2005-11-21, 8:45 am |
| Hi,
I bought my Dell Dimension 8300 about 1.5 years back. It has a P4HT CPU
that runs witch 3 GHz, 512MB of memory installed (running at 400 MHz as
the BIOS states, 2x256 MB Banks).
I bought two more membanks, 256 MB each, and now the BIOS states that
the memory speed has dropped to 333MHz.
Types of RAM: 184-pin DDR RAM: PC3200 CL=2.5
Original RAMS: PC3200U CL=3
As Dell tells in the handbook: "new RAMs may not suit the older ones so
that the system may not run at optimal possible speed."
Is that a built-in flaw so that I have to upgrade using original Dell RAM?
What can I do? Might the RAM be faked?
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| Built-in flaw? That's a new one! Mixing RAM scan result in unpredictable
results.
Trying ordering the corect spec ram from Crucial.com.
"Martina Bender" <KbA@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:dlsda9$86l$1@online.de...
> Hi,
>
> I bought my Dell Dimension 8300 about 1.5 years back. It has a P4HT CPU
> that runs witch 3 GHz, 512MB of memory installed (running at 400 MHz as
> the BIOS states, 2x256 MB Banks).
>
> I bought two more membanks, 256 MB each, and now the BIOS states that the
> memory speed has dropped to 333MHz.
>
> Types of RAM: 184-pin DDR RAM: PC3200 CL=2.5
>
> Original RAMS: PC3200U CL=3
>
> As Dell tells in the handbook: "new RAMs may not suit the older ones so
> that the system may not run at optimal possible speed."
>
> Is that a built-in flaw so that I have to upgrade using original Dell RAM?
>
>
>
> What can I do? Might the RAM be faked?
| |
| Tom Scales 2005-11-21, 8:45 am |
| Well, you mixed speeds. They need to be matching CL as well.
Tom
"Martina Bender" <KbA@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:dlsda9$86l$1@online.de...
> Hi,
>
> I bought my Dell Dimension 8300 about 1.5 years back. It has a P4HT CPU
> that runs witch 3 GHz, 512MB of memory installed (running at 400 MHz as
> the BIOS states, 2x256 MB Banks).
>
> I bought two more membanks, 256 MB each, and now the BIOS states that the
> memory speed has dropped to 333MHz.
>
> Types of RAM: 184-pin DDR RAM: PC3200 CL=2.5
>
> Original RAMS: PC3200U CL=3
>
> As Dell tells in the handbook: "new RAMs may not suit the older ones so
> that the system may not run at optimal possible speed."
>
> Is that a built-in flaw so that I have to upgrade using original Dell RAM?
>
>
>
> What can I do? Might the RAM be faked?
| |
| S.Lewis 2005-11-21, 4:45 pm |
|
"Martina Bender" <KbA@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:dlsda9$86l$1@online.de...
> Hi,
>
> I bought my Dell Dimension 8300 about 1.5 years back. It has a P4HT CPU
> that runs witch 3 GHz, 512MB of memory installed (running at 400 MHz as
> the BIOS states, 2x256 MB Banks).
>
> I bought two more membanks, 256 MB each, and now the BIOS states that the
> memory speed has dropped to 333MHz.
>
> Types of RAM: 184-pin DDR RAM: PC3200 CL=2.5
>
> Original RAMS: PC3200U CL=3
>
> As Dell tells in the handbook: "new RAMs may not suit the older ones so
> that the system may not run at optimal possible speed."
>
> Is that a built-in flaw so that I have to upgrade using original Dell RAM?
>
>
>
> What can I do? Might the RAM be faked?
I don't think the CL (cas latency) difference is the problem. In fact I'd
bet money that it is not. Shouldn't affect the bus speed at all. I think
the new memory is mis-labeled or faulty PC2700/333mhz DDR - pick your
intentions of the seller/source.
Even if one of the new DIMMS is running at PC2700, it will cause the system
RAM to clock back to 333mhz speed in it's entireity.
Easy enough to figure out: Pull the original pair of DIMMs and set them
aside together. Try each one of the new DIMMs individually (in
single-channel mode) and view the speed in BIOS. You'll find out if one or
both are running at 333mhz/PC2700 speeds.
hth
Stew
| |
| Martina Bender 2005-11-21, 4:45 pm |
| >
> Even if one of the new DIMMS is running at PC2700, it will cause the system
> RAM to clock back to 333mhz speed in it's entireity.
>
> Easy enough to figure out: Pull the original pair of DIMMs and set them
> aside together. Try each one of the new DIMMs individually (in
> single-channel mode) and view the speed in BIOS. You'll find out if one or
> both are running at 333mhz/PC2700 speeds.
>
Thanks for your hint!
I'll do that asap!
| |
| Ben Myers 2005-11-21, 4:45 pm |
| Just as important, download and run MEMTEST-86, the best and free memory
diagnostic tool. MEMTEST-86 will smoke out any incompatibilities between memory
and motherboard... Ben Myers
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:25:13 +0100, Martina Bender <KbA@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Thanks for your hint!
>
>I'll do that asap!
| |
| Martina Bender 2005-11-21, 4:45 pm |
| >
> Easy enough to figure out: Pull the original pair of DIMMs and set them
> aside together. Try each one of the new DIMMs individually (in
> single-channel mode) and view the speed in BIOS. You'll find out if one or
> both are running at 333mhz/PC2700 speeds.
I tested the new RAMs (without the old ones installed). The BIOS runs
memory at 400 MHz - CPU-Z, Dr.Hardware and Everest agreed with that.
I mixed the old RAMs and the new ones in various variations. Everytime
same results: with 4 installed banks the system only runs at 333 MHz.
Maybe the different CL (2.5 vs. 3) is the reason? Or does the BIOS run
at lower speed for safety reasons?
| |
| S.Lewis 2005-11-21, 4:45 pm |
|
"Martina Bender" <Kabe@B.com> wrote in message
news:dlt34o$dds$1@online.de...
>
> I tested the new RAMs (without the old ones installed). The BIOS runs
> memory at 400 MHz - CPU-Z, Dr.Hardware and Everest agreed with that.
>
> I mixed the old RAMs and the new ones in various variations. Everytime
> same results: with 4 installed banks the system only runs at 333 MHz.
>
> Maybe the different CL (2.5 vs. 3) is the reason? Or does the BIOS run at
> lower speed for safety reasons?
If it is the CL, it would be the first time I've seen it personally.
Typically, CL will default to the slowest CL DIMM inserted as well, but does
not affect the bus speed of the RAM
What brands are the original --------and also brand of the new DIMMs?
It now sounds (imo) like incompatibility between the two brands of RAM -
somewhat unusual.
I'd either try to locate and match a pair identical to the original pair, or
I'd go to www.crucial.com and get another pair with a guarantee.
If that's possible of course.
Stew
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| Martina Bender 2005-11-22, 5:45 am |
| Hi,
I made a few test runs with the new RAMs and they seem to run at 400Mhz
when only 2 banks of the 4 possible banks are equipped with RAMs.
If 3 or 4 banks are equipped with RAM the system seems to slow down to
333 MHz intentionally?
| |
|
|
Martina Bender wrote:
>
> I tested the new RAMs (without the old ones installed). The BIOS runs
> memory at 400 MHz - CPU-Z, Dr.Hardware and Everest agreed with that.
>
> I mixed the old RAMs and the new ones in various variations. Everytime
> same results: with 4 installed banks the system only runs at 333 MHz.
>
> Maybe the different CL (2.5 vs. 3) is the reason? Or does the BIOS run
> at lower speed for safety reasons?
I think you are right - the CL need to be the same - your original is
prob CL3 and the new ones need to be the same or you drop to 333. Not
sure but have seen this response a number of times.
| |
| S.Lewis 2005-11-22, 8:45 am |
|
"Martina Bender" <KbA@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:dlukip$cub$1@online.de...
> Hi,
>
> I made a few test runs with the new RAMs and they seem to run at 400Mhz
> when only 2 banks of the 4 possible banks are equipped with RAMs.
>
> If 3 or 4 banks are equipped with RAM the system seems to slow down to 333
> MHz intentionally?
Let me see if I understand: if ALL DIMMs, both old or new, will run at
400mhz in any socket individually, but then speeds revert to 333mhz with
both pairs installed, then the new and old pair are, for some reason,
incompatible.
Conclusion: the new pair won't run at 400mhz with the old pair because the
new pair are either faulty or again, incompatible.
You did not post the brand/make of the new pair of DIMMs.
You can buy a guaranteed matched/compatible pair at www.crucial.com or
www.4allmemory.com .
I located a matched pair (2 x 256mb Micron) on ebay used. They were used and
had come from a Dell machine, fwiw. No issues.
Stew
| |
| Martina Bender 2005-11-22, 8:45 am |
| >
> Let me see if I understand: if ALL DIMMs, both old or new, will run at
> 400mhz in any socket individually, but then speeds revert to 333mhz with
> both pairs installed, then the new and old pair are, for some reason,
> incompatible.
You got it.
>
> Conclusion: the new pair won't run at 400mhz with the old pair because the
> new pair are either faulty or again, incompatible.
I woul exclude faultyness due to the fact that the new ones run at 400,
too, if only the new ones are installed.
>
> You did not post the brand/make of the new pair of DIMMs.
>
CPU-Z and, Everest and Dr.Hardware state that those are MOSEL-Chips,
Serial-Number FFFFFFFF, Manufacturing Date 255, Year 255. No Part-No.
The old RAMS are Nanya Technology, Part-No.: NT256D64S88B1G-ST
Well, problem is: I don't live in the US so ordering them there and
shipping would increase costs :-(
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| Ben Myers 2005-11-22, 8:45 am |
| Let me suggest for the very last time that you download and run MEMTEST-86 to
test both old and new memory thoroughly. If MEMTEST-86 reveals at least one
error duiring the testing, then there is some incompatibility or defective
memory somewhere. Repeat MEMTEST-86 with only the old and only the new memory.
Same story. Any errors shown by MEMTEST-86 reveal incompatibility or defective
memory. If MEMTEST-86 shows ZERO errors after running repeated complete cycles
of tests, live with the slower memory clock speed. Unless you are running high
frame-rate video games or compute-intensive software, the slower speed will mean
little or nothing at the end of the day.
I do not comprehend why there is reluctance to run simple memory diagnostic
tests! ... Ben Myers
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:40:33 +0100, Martina Bender <KbA@btinternet.com> wrote:
>You got it.
>
>I woul exclude faultyness due to the fact that the new ones run at 400,
>too, if only the new ones are installed.
>
>CPU-Z and, Everest and Dr.Hardware state that those are MOSEL-Chips,
>Serial-Number FFFFFFFF, Manufacturing Date 255, Year 255. No Part-No.
>
>
>The old RAMS are Nanya Technology, Part-No.: NT256D64S88B1G-ST
>
>Well, problem is: I don't live in the US so ordering them there and
>shipping would increase costs :-(
| |
| Martina Bender 2005-11-22, 4:45 pm |
| >
> I do not comprehend why there is reluctance to run simple memory diagnostic
> tests! ... Ben Myers
>
Hi Ben, thanks for your suggestions. There is no reluctance, but the
hope to solve the issue the "easy" way.
I'll run the test. I'll post the results but it takes one or two days.
Regards!
| |
| S.Lewis 2005-11-22, 4:45 pm |
|
"Martina Bender" <KbA@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:dlve1e$id7$1@online.de...
> Hi Ben, thanks for your suggestions. There is no reluctance, but the hope
> to solve the issue the "easy" way.
>
> I'll run the test. I'll post the results but it takes one or two days.
>
> Regards!
As Ben has also pointed out (which had occured to me as well) the worst
you've got is RAM running at 333mhz vs. 400mhz.
Provided none of the RAM tests faulty, this should be a near non-issue in
performance.
Stew
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| Ben Myers 2005-11-22, 4:45 pm |
| Google for MEMTEST-86, download either the ISO image or both the diskette image
and the diskette image writer. Prepare a bootable CD with Nero or a similar CD
burner, or use the diskette image writer to write the image to a clean
error-free floppy diskette. Boot the system with either CD or diskette, and let
MEMTEST-86 run. And run. And run. On a Pentium 4 class computer, it should
take no more than an hour to run 5 or 6 passes, enough to have confidence in the
memory. BTW, you don't have to watch MEMTEST-86 run. Go out, do some errands,
take a shower, eat a meal, then come back to see the results.
This test is about as easy as it gets... Ben Myers
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:38:20 +0100, Martina Bender <KbA@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Hi Ben, thanks for your suggestions. There is no reluctance, but the
>hope to solve the issue the "easy" way.
>
>I'll run the test. I'll post the results but it takes one or two days.
>
>Regards!
| |
| Martina Bender 2005-11-22, 4:45 pm |
| Hi,
I found the time to run the tests - and guess what: no errors.
I run three different test, about 1 hr each.
1: only new RAMs
2: only old RAMs
3 both of them
Test #1 & #2 roughly took 10 min to pass (every run), Test 3 took about
20 minutes (roughly estimated).
For test #1 Memtest-86 stated: CAS Timing 2.5-3-3-8 PAT: enabled
For test #3 Memtest-86 stated: CAS Timing 2.5-3-3-7 PAT: disabled
Test #2 I didn't note these values.
So I think I got to live with my RAMs. Two last questions:
(1) what does above mentined PAT: enabled/disabled mean?
(2) why do you say there ain't no big difference in performance between
333 and 400 MHz?
Of course, memspeed does not mean everything, but the difference is
about 20%?
Thanks a lot to all for your help!
| |
| S.Lewis 2005-11-22, 4:45 pm |
|
"Martina Bender" <Kabe@B.com> wrote in message
news:dlvp46$6na$1@online.de...
> Hi,
>
(snip)
> (1) what does above mentined PAT: enabled/disabled mean?
> (2) why do you say there ain't no big difference in performance between
> 333 and 400 MHz?
> Of course, memspeed does not mean everything, but the difference is
> about 20%?
>
> Thanks a lot to all for your help!
>
1) http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/pat.htm
2) because you won't (with the eye or perception) be able to see any real
performance difference, only in benchmarking tests.
Stew
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